this is a massive problem.

the czech birthrate of 1.2 is nearly the lowest of the world.

This means in 40 odd years the population will reduce by about 40%, and those that are young will have a massive burden to care for the old. W e are not growing.

the only way out is to adopt thirld world immigration (failure everywhere else in the world) as our stocks disappear. Not only will we vanish, so will the czech people as we know it.

thoughts?

That's a interesting question; problem you have there. I know it and discussed it. But it's difficult to have a decent discussion about it if I don't know the reason. Although I know it's normal that "first world countries" have lower birth-rates. There needs to be at least one more reason….

Hey there, this is shocking news. I also don't know much about it but it's not surprising. The whole of Europe is on the decline. BUt we shouldn't be scared about it. I think education and providing better social acceptance of working mothers should be improved.

I came across an interesting article about Norway's approach to birth rate.

Could Norway's welfare model improve the European birth rate? (Norway - the official site in the UK) (http://www.norway.org.uk/policy/news/birthrates.htm)

I find this an interesting subject knowing many people through out Europe and Russia. I would say that even in the US it is the same, just does not show up in the statistics because of the large amount of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican/US border.

May I offer some opinions purely for the sake of discussion. A) I think better educated women/couples tend to have less children. In my own family, 1 to 2 children is all any my brothers, sisters and I have. Even though we were a family of 8. B) I think people tend to have less children because of the expense to have children. C) I think people tend to enjoy having more freedom and do not want to spend their entire lives raising children. D) Many people are waiting until they are older to get married and to have children. Therefore they have less children. E) The availability of birth control methods have made it possible to have less children but still have relations with your spouse or girlfriend.

Some good friends of mine in US and in Ukraine have 3 or 4 children so it does still happen. But many of my friends will have only one child and plan on having only one.

Now, something a little more controversial. Why not have less people. It is not the same as it was when my father grew up. One person on one excavating machine does more work than 20 people did by hand 50 years ago. We discuss the burden on younger people because we have more percentage of older people. But what about the burden on younger people if they can not get a good job or opportunity because there are too many people? Since machinery can handle much of what a younger person used to be necessary for, why really worry about a reduced population?

I know this might be considered Naive, but we have limited resources on this Earth. Limited fuel, food, water and we have plenty of people. :-) We stress nature, I see more and more buildings going up, but the same number of parks, rivers, oceans and mountains. We have cars/trains/bus/tram yet we constantly need more because the traffic in most cities around the world is too high.

Best regards,
Texasjohn

Yep, it's a problem of all european nations. It can't be stopped at this point I think, the indigenous population and culture of Europe is going to die out.

While Europe is still alive, enjoy. In about 50 years the territory is going to belong to a new state - the Western Caliphate. :)

This doesn't make me happy or sad... just using logic. I don't like any civilizations. They are all based on aggression and hierarchy.

The civilization of Europe is one of the oldest in the world... and one of the most intellectually developed. It has matured to the point of realizing its inherent corruption, that the principles upon which it is founded (aggression, hierarchy, violence, domination, submission) are wrong... it has progressively tried to become softer... to employ less force, to make humans more equal.

And now it's going to be dissolved...

We just need imigrants - new blood. That's all :)

thank you texasjohn, It's a logical explanation you gave us. I really like the opinions you gave us. Although B isn't really in Czech a problem. Woman can stay a long time home without have large financial problem course of that. Although it's less good as it was, it's still near to perfect as it gets in the E.U. Next to that in Czech the education isn't as expensive as around Czech, although that is changing rapidly as well

Eso, welcome as new member and as new blood in ?Czech?

Recently Russian implemented a "new program" to encourage a higher birth rate in that country. Women are provided with "financial incentives" to have more children. The problem - only the less income people have had more children. :dohChina went the other direction - taxes if you had more than 1 child. They understood that they have too many people and too much difficulty by having more children. As far as Czech Republic, I see plenty of baby strollers in Brno, so I am not sure it is of too much concern right now. :-)

In the US, due to "welfare payments" a typical welfare mother has no husband but up to 8 or 10 children. This has become a perpetuating problem of "poor people" having more "poor children". I would thus not encourage anything but better education systems and allow families to decide on their own what they want. Just my opinion, I wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Texasjohn

I know that this is an old post, but the first thing that comes to mind is. "WHAT THE H3!L!"

I know that this is an old post, but the first thing that comes to mind after reading this is.............. "WTH!"First on what I agree with. Poor and ignorant people tend to have a lot of children. The world is in danger of being "used up". But your solution is that the intellegent responsible people need to be the ones to stop reproducing?!! Have you never heard that "All it takes for evil men to succeed is for the good man to do nothing."People have become apathetic, and self consumed. Self loathing is the epitomy of being self consumed. We should die off so that the more deserving third worlders can gleen our inheritance?!!!! Shame on all of you! Where is the love of your country and culture?

Hello Lisa,
The point of my posting is "governments" trying to encourage people to have children is a pretty stupid thing to do. Next, if you want children, then no one is trying to stop you, assuming of course that you plan on taking care of them, feed them, clothe them and educate them. I hate to say it, but there are men out there who would love to do their part to populate the world. But they have no intentions of raising their children.

To encourage people to have children who can not support them by themselves, to destroy the basic structure of a family is not a good thing to do. All of the valid statistics and data point to the fact that any program set up by any government to encourage people to have more children - backfires! Let natural order step in. If a person can not afford to have a child, do not provide them a check to go have a child!

There are over 10 Million people in the Czech Republic. What do you think is the right approach- every Czech woman should have 5 babies to stem the rest of the world from living here?

So here are some basic facts about these postings. My only point through out these postings is the idea that more people in this world are not necessarily a good thing, so why worry about a reduced birth rate or a shrinking of the total number of people in the world? Drinkable, potable water is starting to become scarce in many parts of the world. There are already dead rivers in California do to Los Angelas and the last 80 km of the Rio Grande has been reduced from a Tropical Rainforest to a desert in the last 40 years. China's major desert is increasing and taking farmland at an alarming rate. If you honestly think these factors will not affect the Czech Republic - then you have not studied Czech History.

And yes, I am a foreigner and I live here now. So I also represent a change to the Czech Culture. Over 90 % of my day is dealing in English, so I learn Czech slowly. My business is in technology, Energy conversion and Energy Conservation, so realistically I know that the Greenhouse affect and pollution are already starting to affect Czech Republic. Look at the statistics of snowfall over the last 10 years and the level of the water table in various areas, especially Prague and Brno. But also Ostrava, Plizen and elsewhere.

Best regards,
Texasjohn

Texasjohn,

Russia has "encouraged" not forced, and I applaud that effort. And Russia's birth rate has significantly increased because of it. I found it disturbing that you would admire the Chinese birth policies which has produced a peverted imbalance of more boys than girls.

There is no arguement that there are enviroment problems, (none of which you mentioned were in the Czech Republic). But it is intellegent good hearted people who are trying to change that, the world needs more of these type of people. Good people pass these attribute to their children.My arguement is good people and good cultures should perpetuate!!

Snezna noc said some awful things, and no one refuted it.

Mr Eso said to bring in Imigrants "new blood". From where?

And will these new occupants discover perfect harmony with the enviroment? And if they're from outside the EU, it'll be endless ethnic strife. Imagine magnifying the current ethnic strife with the Roma by a factor of 10! Because that's what you'll get.

If a people don't have a vision they will perish. Your kind of thought line is poisonous and the wrong kind of vision. I don't mean to come across harsh when I say that, but I'm just being protective of the Czech Republic.

Thheizz said the Czech Republic is capable of their women staying home and their education is more affordable than most. You can give a country a vision for one choice or the other. It can be marketed either way.

It is the Czech family's patriotic duty to have children that they can bequeth the country to just as their forefathers did. It's part of being a good productive citizen.

If you don't mind me asking, as a foreigner are you "out" to change the culture of the Czech Republic? How long have you been there?

Before my husband and I came for our 11 day stay we memorized a entire Czech language CD. We wanted to show our respect of the country, the same as if we went to Japan or any other place.

Because the fact of the matter is, the Czech Republic is a small country, the size of Maryland and it can easily lose its culture if the people are apathetic and not having children.

I look forward to your reply,Lisa:)

Lisa,
My wife is Russian. So let me first respond to the fact that you want to believe what is written in the newspapers and published by the government. Not what has really happened. The Russian government gives an incentive to have children approximately equivalent to $10,000 USD. Even in Russia, this is not enough money to properly raise a child. Birth rates have not increased among their better educated women. The typical educated Russian woman still has only 1 to 2 children, usually only 1 child. The birth rates in most regions of Russia are still primarily on the decline. The primary exception is Kuzbekistan. But more importantly, its population is physically decreasing. Could this be due to their stringent Visa policy, their censorship of TV and Paper News, their high rate of alcoholism among their men and women especially above the age of 35 or the fact that 36 men now control 25% of the country's wealth? Or maybe, it is due that to many Russians, the only way for a truly better life is to leave the Country. (Sorry - apparently these are considered different topics and not important to the discussion at hand - or are they part of the overall discussion?)

Yes, there are now more Men in China than women. My understanding is the ratio is about 1.19 to 1 versus the typical 1.02 to 1 ratio of boys to girls. Part of this has been do to a practice no one wants to talk about. Chinese have always looked to their children to support them in their old age. Some Chinese were concerned that a "girl" would not be able to support them, thus if they had a girl child they actually practiced genocide. We can talk about the abuses regularly, this is what are newspeople and government use to get us to buy their newspapers and support their programs.

But let us also talk about the other realities. My father grew up on a farm where horses were the primary way of doing work. His parents had 12 children. Why? They needed them to work the farm. Before you cry out that this is preposterous. My mother and father had 6 children. They decided to stop. They were not concerned that their children needed to support them in their old age, nor were they worried about being able to make an income as they got older. My father was able to make a good income and be taken care of in their old age. My uncle is 72 and farms/ranches 3500 acres with one helper. Why? Today's machinery. Just 50 years ago, people's attitudes were different. Life is changing everywhere including Europe and Czech Republic.

You talk about spending 11 days here in the Czech Republic. Buying a CD to "learn" Czech. Since you are writing in English, I assume you do not natively speak a "Slovik" tongue. My wife and daughter both learn Czech much faster than I do partly because they already know Russian. My daughter is enrolled in a Czech school.

The issue is not the "birth rate". But better education. Change is inevitable. To keep traditions alive, everyone must take their part in improving education. You mention the Czech attitude towards "Roma" or Romas. So apparently you are aware of this "bad side" of their culture and their attitude towards Romas that has existed for a few hundred years. A certain number of Czechs automatically assume that Roma children can not be educated. The Romas live in sub-standard housing. A Roma district is obvious. It is the one with busted out windows or apartments with fire damage. It is easy for people to claim they want to live like animals. But who owns the buildings and charge the rent?

To answer your last question, I spent 3.5 years and 6 visits consisting of 2 weeks to 1.5 months looking into the Czech Republic before I started setting up a business here. I have met with Government officials, Universities, Business people and people on the street. I did not just go to "Prague" and get my taste of Czech Culture. We have lived here in Brno for the last 9 months and have permanent working visas. We are not like "IBM" employees who plan to come here for 2 years, impact the Czech Culture and then return to their own country. We renovated a flat to use as a home and business. We actively work with Faculty, students and hire "Czech Citizens" not people from India or Romania.

As an alternative suggestion to "improving" the birth rate, I will offer a unpopular but practical suggestion. Provide free vasectomies to young men 16 and older without requiring their parent's permission. Vasectomies can be reversed. Abortions can not. Let's not cry out that it encourages sex, but lets talk about the fact that children having babies before they are old enough to know the world is just not right.

In reality, this proposal addresses your issues more than the "increase in birth rate" and the Czech family's patriotic duty to have more children. Sorry, but that is a bunch of "bunk" . You came to visit the Czech Republic, not live here.

Best regards,
Texasjohn

Hi Lisa,
Since there is a 7 hour time difference let me also add. On the environmental issue, South Moravia alone has 300 Brownfield sites. Environmentally contaminated sites that must be cleaned up. My comment about "drinkable" water is real. Everyone buys bottled water to drink.

The Chinese government faced a "harsh" reality. Their population was increasing to the point that all of their resources would be depleted in less than 100 years if they did not do something. If push comes to shove, China will take what they need from the rest of the world in order to survive. The Chinese elder officials know this. Many hardliners did not approve of the "birth control" plan but instead pushed to increase military capabilities. So we can condemn the genocide of girl children while ignoring the real issue, that of feeding and providing water to a billion people.

Worldwide we have reached a breaking point. Environmental abuses, greenhouse effects are all real. Every Country has its own issues. As you mentioned, Czech Republic is a small country with many of its own problems. To address these issues is not always the "popular" approach. But it is still my opinion that trying to promote a Czech Family's "patriotic duty" is to have more children is not a way to address the problem.

I also note that neither one of us are actually Czech. Your husband has Czech ancestry, but you both live in Texas. An entirely different world and culture. I am from Texas, I know the Czech cultures of Texas, The traditions are based on what people remember from a hundred years ago. Not the Czech culture of today.

Best regards,
Texasjohn.

Texasjohn
Wow you’re kind of all over the place.

I must have struck a nerve, your writing came off pissed. As to you trying to invalidate us, we have two more Czech language courses that we are learning, and we are seriously considering moving to the Czech Republic. This summer we plan on staying in Moravia and we check the daily news and keep up with the Czech politics. We also rent any Czech movie we can find. Not at the level that you are at, but people who have a sincere interest in the country. Once we moved we planned on being as Czech as possible, within the limits of our American personalities.

But lets stay on the subject. People should be educated when they have children, but it needs to be parental education, child development and communication skills. This is something that a government can promote. As for the educated people who have 1 to 2 children, they too can be marketed to, to have more children. People are followers. So increase in birth rate can be done. But you say it shouldn’t be done.

With third world populations greatly increasing, how do we solve the problem by decreasing? This is just a form of surrender. We are the “haves“, they are the “have-nots“. They want, they come, they take. No culture should become extinct.

Czech people should speak Czech, look Czech and act Czech. Maintaining and even increasing their country. Why would anyone give all that up? Czechs are part of a thousand year chain, who’ve dealt with war and occupation - why take what all those generations of Czechs created and preserved, give it away to someone else because you or a few others are apathetic?

In terms of the Czech relationship with the Roma, what about it? The Czechs are basing their attitudes upon experience. Cultures clash you know. If we were truly all the same then every country in the world would look alike with a one world culture. (I really hope you don’t say that’s what your looking forward to.)

I’m surprised that you wouldn’t feel protective of the Czech Republic. Why wouldn’t you want to preserve it? I can’t imagine that you are of the opinion of enforcing your culture upon them. I’m sure you speak more Czech than what you let on, but even so, don’t you long to know more and be more apart of them, or do you expect them to speak more English for you?

Good people and good cultures pass these attributes to their children. My greatest gift to my children, second to my love, are the siblings I’ve given them. When my husband and I are gone they will have each other. One child is a lonely child, two children are fighting for the full attention of the parent. Three or more is the only way to go.:becky:

Lisa

Hello Lisa,
Not pissed. I just don't agree that "governments" encouraging people to have more children through tax credits or money grants is the answer. People should be able to chose if they want more children. Not thrown at them that it is their patriotic duty.

You apparently want more than 1 child. That is your choice. I have attempted to explain reasons that other people may not agree.

Your point, is that we give up this world to third world people or the Romas. Sorry, that sounds quite a bit prejudiced to me. Apparently the AIDS epidemic in Africa is not being taken into consideration here nor the children armies.

I believe my suggestion is more valid. Provide free vasectomies to young men. Place the clinics in the middle of "poor sections" of town or through out the world. Right across from the "free abortion" clinics which I know exist in Houston and elsewhere. Provide young men a choice as to "if" and "when" they want to father a child. Take it into consideration. It addresses your concerns. Give young men from poor neighborhoods or anywhere for that matter a choice that they do not have to pay for and keep poor young women from having children that they can not afford to have.

The concept of "go out and multiply" is as outdated as Pope John Paul's failure to condone the use of condoms in third world Catholic countries.

Best regards,
Texasjohn

Czech people should speak Czech, look Czech and act Czech. Maintaining and even increasing their country. Why would anyone give all that up? Czechs are part of a thousand year chain, who’ve dealt with war and occupation - why take what all those generations of Czechs created and preserved, give it away to someone else because you or a few others are apathetic?

Sorry, this is your viewpoint. Schengen was just initiated on the 21st of December. Czechs will be able to travel more freely throughout Europe and vice versa. I do not try to force Czechs to learn English. I attempt to learn Czech, but realistically all of my business is in English including my conversations with Czech business colleagues. Why? Because realistically International business is held in English.

Until the last 50 years, Europe was constantly being dragged into war do to people being unable to communicate with each other. There are many complaints about the EU destroying cultural differences. But the Czechs and others want free borders and to belong to the Union. That is why they asked to join. Not everyone is happy with it. But it is here now.

You apparently have the belief that cultures should not change. Every culture changes. This is a fact of life. Look at history. No country is the same as it was even 50 years ago. Fifty years ago the Czech Republic was under Soviet Rule. It was a different time in their history just like today is a different time in history.

Best regards,
Texasjohn

Texasjohn

I think I’ve reiterated my points enough. Good people should be producing more good people. This is an idea that should be embraced and promoted.
I’m against governments that FORCE any kind of birth polices, encouraging, manipulating, marketing, ect. is different all together. An intelligent person should be able to tell the difference between the two.

I was waiting for you to throw the prejudice card in. I never mentioned the Romas taking over, I don’t want them to be eliminated the same as I don’t want the Czechs to be. I don’t want any culture to be, I’ve said that. Why is it that the indigenous culture that we (Europeans) have decimated in the past is blood stain on our history, but to have it turned back on us is just desserts. It’s wrong to be done to anyone.

Apparently the AIDS epidemic in Africa is not being taken into consideration here nor the children armies.


:suspicious: Explain this, what does this have to do with our topic? What do you do to help in third world countries?

Cultures do and will change. Honestly I am more concerned with the Czech Republic being victims of American media. As an environmentalist you must agree that materialism is the true cancer of our world. The break down of the family unit has created broken hearted people. And our American democracy is seeming to have run it’s course, and it’s in its final stages, (I’m assuming you know about the theory of the stages that all democracies go through).

I’m just hoping that there is a better place than here in Houston, and that place could be the Czech Republic, and if it is I want it preserved.

Sure Czechs should have their piece of the pie, and to do that they need to be multilingual, but at the end of the day at their markets, schools, and in their home I would hope they would speak their mother language, and that all long term guest should do the same. A person must earn something good, that includes the right to live in someone else home land.

I would love to hear from Czechs on this matter, so please speak up if you are reading this.

Texasjohn, I've enjoyed this debate. :)
Lisa

Came across this interesting quote while checking European news

"Germany must remain the land of the Germans, so that our children don't suffer the same fate as the (American) Indians who were unable to stop the immigrants and now live on reservations,"

The same argument I'm making follows for the Czechs. With a low birth rate, the massive influx of foreigners into the EU, the very same could EASILY happen for the Czech Republic in one generation alone.

It's happening now in the UK and France and Sweden.

Whoa, pretty interesting debate, too bad I missed the beginning.
With your permission, I would add a few points.

1. To make things easier, would anyone object if I would use the historically-correct word of "Gypsy" instead of the politically-correct word of "Roma"? I've never met any Jew objecting to being called "Jew" instead of "Israelite" yet. The use of "Roma" is only leading to confusion.

2. The very same thing is already happening in Romania (which, contrary to some opinions, is not the land of the Roma, i.e. Gypsies, but the country of the Romanians, the only Latin people of Central and Eastern Europe). The Gypsies' birth-rate is skyrocketing, due to the government aids for "families with many children" and their (lack of) culture, at least in this field.
In contrast, the Romanians (especially the educated ones) tend to have one, maximum two children, as they (those more educated, I underline that) can realistically evaluate the level of care and education they can provide, given a specific amount of financial resources.
I'm not very familiar with the Gypsy community here (not that I would really want to, given past experiences), but I presume the problem is pretty much the same.

3. It's difficult to provide a solution for this issue. If I had the right to vote here, I would support:
- harsher immigration laws, based upon economical criteria: the Statistical Office of the Czech government could issue a quarterly (or monthly, or yearly) bulletin providing the minimal amount needed to properly raise a child without using any government aid. If a potentially-immigrant family doesn't fit into those requirements (X family members x Y Kc per month), then visa requests should be denied. If they get here and THEN start breeding beyond their financial possibilities and turn to government aid, expulsion with immediate effect should follow.
- reduce state support for families with many children. Here are two potential cases: family wants children to get government benefits OR family knows nothing about birth control. In the first one, it's quite clear it's about bad will, so some kind of financial sanctions (e.g. no tax exempt, no extra money for raising the extra children the family cannot support etc) should be applied. In the latter, it's about lack of information, so it should be provided the opportunity to have free contraceptives, free abortions or even free sterilization (of course, with the agreement of the people in question). I'm rather pessimistic about the effect of free contraceptives - it was tried a few years ago in Romania with some communities and the only effect was a condoms-and-pills black market.
- raise state support for families who CAN support their children. Example: take the above (X x Y) amount of money that a family needs to raise X children. If the total income prior to a new child exceeds the (X x Y) sum, give a tax cut after the birth of the new child, say 1/2 x "Y" - so that the new child is not "self-sufficient", that is, the govt. aid alone wouldn't be enough to support him. Give tax cuts when children graduate from high school and/or universities. Give tax cuts when buying a flat. Give tax cuts when someone in the family decides to start a business. Don't give extra money just for breeding. Why tax cuts instead of simple monthly amounts? Because lower taxes stimulate people to find better jobs / expand their businesses, while monthly amounts of money only generate inflation.

I realize I might be labeled a "Fascist" for my opinions, but it's nothing like that. Yes, I totally oppose the left-wing measures supporting "those in need" - because 1) I am a selfish person :), 2) I am "not in need", so I see no reason to pay large or extra taxes in order to help "those in need", 3) I've seen the effects of communism and, later, pseudo social-democracy without a solid economical base and, I'm telling you, they're not good.

Hello Adj,
No problem. I was just trying to be politically correct. But you are right. People outside of the Czech Republic might take Roma to mean Romanians not Gypsies. :)

Texasjohn

Who is the one you think writes well and which view do you support?